Curse

Yllena · Aug 14, 2015, 03:03 PM // 15:03

Definitely more relaxing than any teambuild I tried so far and very "beginner friendly"

Sure, there are faster team builds, but those are either more specialized, require a lot more concentration/micro management or need cons to be really efficient in more difficult areas.

Finished all 6 to 8 man vanquishes with this teambuild without changing heroes even the slightest. The only thing I did change was build of my main (sin) so I dont get bored out of my mind. Tried out just about any kind of build except of shadow form builds

Thanks.

You mentioned Dervish in your first post. But you arent talking about any kind of healer build for Derv, are you? Im a bit confused there.

Btw, I noticed that if you play any kind of ranged or healer build, you can easily get the correct group formation by:
1. setting hero 3 (and 4) on aggro (as you mentioned in first post) then
2. pull closest target on range with call target
3. set flags for heroes 1 and 2 to the left and to the right of you and
4. step back a bit yourself so you are behind party

For those times I played "tank" I found this way easiest:
1. set hero 3 on aggro (as above) and start fight by
2. setting flags for heroes 1 and 2 on either side of you
3. cast up defensive stuff
4. then use some kind of shadow step to step right into mobs and call target once

So I wouldnt really say you are only limited to playing healer or ranged with this teambuild. At least not for vanquishing and areas like fow.

Zephyr of Light · Aug 14, 2015, 08:12 PM // 20:12

Hey Yllena,

Thanks for trying out my setup, and i'm glad that its working out for you.

I haven't really made any dervish healer builds for example.
But i think its quite easy to look at the pvp derv healers, grab 16 wind prayers, grab strong heals maybe some pve skills and your good to go.

On the sin part of this story is that you could try too use this team diffrently, and using it for spike purposes (like how they do that in DoA etc.)

And youre correct, you dont have and can play many diffrent roles in this team.
Even warriors with "Save Yourselves!" can add real value to the team.

However, my personal preference is to play healer, if I make sure nobody dies, they can do their job.

Its all about how you want to use it.

Shasgaliel · Aug 17, 2015, 11:52 AM // 11:52

For me the usual stuff. How does it work with the when kappa attack HM quest? I find that build can be divided into two categories. Those with which this quest is doable or those with which it is almost impossible. There is almost no middle ground. Have you tried this quest already?

Zephyr of Light · Aug 17, 2015, 01:52 PM // 13:52

I think you shouldn't find any real problems.

They key thing to do is to "pre-activate" Panic, and target the most centered enemy if the group.

Maybe micro the ST beforehand with the keybinded first 3 skills on its bar (ST>Shelter>Displacement)

I haven't tried the quest (Probably a bunch of Water Ele's, so try to CC emidiatly or Dodge the Maelstrom's).
Otherwise then that I dont see any reason how 3 AoE Anti Casters aren't be able to handle that when it counters every proffession of the game.

jague · Aug 19, 2015, 06:16 PM // 18:16

I'm playing a ranger, and i'm rly loving this team setup. Currently doing WoC HM with it. As you said, you completed WoC HM with them, for the 4 man quests, did you just take some of these heros, or did you use a complete other setup?

Thx in advance & keep up the good work!

Zephyr of Light · Aug 20, 2015, 10:08 AM // 10:08

Aye, with the 4 man party size this team definately wont function as described (6-8 man party's only)

shing jea WoC HM is definately (and imo) the hardest area of the entire game.
For that reason and due Z-Way not being optimalized for 4 man's
I recommend using a SoS, Ritual Lord/SoGM and a IV.
Disc or Sabway should work too but definately requires either Cons, Tengu Flares, or zone specific Builds to deal with those hard area's.
You even might want to consider asking a friend to come along (prominently Sin Tank to ease up the strain.)

But once you get past the 4 man size party's, Z-Way becomes viable to deal with everything else further on.

YBlaze · Aug 20, 2015, 12:39 PM // 12:39

So i'm back to the game after long brake. Surprised that we can use now 7 heroes, i found your thread and i have a question.
I'm playing monk, i'm gonna play with my friend ( ranger ), so who should i kick from normal team(without mercs) to keep your build viable?
I'll be healing ofc, but sometimes on easier vanqs or something i would also go with something more offensive ( roj ftw ), so what would be your choices with 1 healer+1 dps, and 2dps human team?

Zephyr of Light · Aug 20, 2015, 03:45 PM // 15:45

Assuming you have no mercanaries.

And assuming you in this case are Healer, and ur buddy DPS.

It should look a bit like this :

You
ST
IV Resto
Panic
E/Me ER
Optional (Inep or Esurge).
Ineptitude.
You're Buddy.

Assuming you are the DPS with ur friend.

You
ST
IV Resto
RM Resto or E/mo (bars supplied in optional hero part)
Inep
Panic
Esurge or Inep.
You're Buddy.

Either of those options are suited to what you think you may need more in the area's you gonna play in

.

For 6 man party teams, I do recommend that as Monk you should go heal. (always the better option imo, other classes tend to DPS just a bit better)

You - Heal
ST
IV - IF you think you can handle it, drop for E/Me or Inep/Esurge.
Inep
Panic
You're Buddy.

Hope this gives you some idea on what changes you could make.
edit : i do really recommend to Keybind you're ST described on my first page.
Its basicly an extention of your own skill bar that allows you to instantly do :
party wide blocking(75%) and damage taken capped to 10% per hit.

Zephyr of Light · Sep 14, 2015, 02:09 PM // 14:09

Update 3.0 :

Cleaned up the cluttering walls of texts a bit.
Added New Team Display.
Added New Template Codes.
Added player healer templates for all healing classes
Added DPS player team.
Added Optional Skills.
Added New Weapon Set (Staff)

Enjoy, hope this makes it a bit clearer on what you can do with it

ruk1a · Sep 17, 2015, 07:22 AM // 07:22

^____^ nice update, saw your post on a new hope

Nimma · Sep 21, 2015, 06:20 AM // 06:20

I really like your hero-teambuilds. Been using Z-way for some months now

One question though: where/how do you flag your heroes in The Eternal Grove HM? Having a hard time there.
Thanks for your awnser!

Zephyr of Light · Oct 09, 2015, 01:23 PM // 13:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nimma

I really like your hero-teambuilds. Been using Z-way for some months now

One question though: where/how do you flag your heroes in The Eternal Grove HM? Having a hard time there.
Thanks for your awnser!

Hello Nimma,

Eternal Grove may prove hard to complete with heroes as you have to trust them outside compass range to do their job, it involves alot of flagging.
I'v made a map of where to flag you're heroes in the waves you'll be up against.

Flag you're heroes in the Cyan/Blue spot when you start the mission.
In the ''turtle wave'' indicated with red dots is where you'll be flagging your party to in order too defeat the turtles. (Only when they are announced to spawn!)
If Northern or Southern turtle has died, reflag that sides party too their Cyan/Blue spot.

If the Western turtle spawns, unflagg everything and flag them all toghether to the Western turtle point. (after making sure their own side has been cleared!)
If that turtle is dead, reflag them back to their own original Cyan/Blue position.

Once all the turtles has been dealt with, Afflicted will appear heading for the tree's.
At that phase you will be needed to flag you're heroes in the Green zone.
This phase is also more straight forward and requires no further flagging as they will take the same path, endure and conquer.
Having them in the green zone allows the healers, emo and st to protect both sides more effectivly, aswell the Tree Singers (for bonus)

The best way of splitting up is making sure either side has :
2 DPS (Inep + Esurge)
1 Prot (Emo / ST)
1 Healer (N/Rt)
As you'll act as either DPS or Healing, the choice is yours on what you want on you're side to have, aslong the other side suits the conditions required (1healer + 1 prot & 2 dps)

If you still have problems feel free too comment again!

Goodluck

rickyf16aus · Oct 18, 2015, 10:11 AM // 10:11

Thank you so much with the help of your build and lots and lots of practice and guides i was finally able to solo DoA in normal mode. I have dreamed for so long to be able to do this. After lots of attempts and build tweaking and multiple profession switches I finally killed Mallyx with the help of a conset

I love your builds!

greenough · Oct 19, 2015, 12:25 AM // 00:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nimma

I really like your hero-teambuilds. Been using Z-way for some months now

One question though: where/how do you flag your heroes in The Eternal Grove HM? Having a hard time there.
Thanks for your awnser!

Recorded this today, first try so pretty sloppy but you can get a good idea.
https://youtu.be/nNwCedfhCTY

Life Bringing · Oct 19, 2015, 05:26 AM // 05:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zephyr of Light

Nothing much of a real update, I haven't played in a while but found a screenshot worth posting.

The good part of this post is that you're now able to do 11 minute runs in Mallyx's Citadel.
This way requires atleast one mercenary hero.

Personal Record Time 674 seconds.

http://i61.tinypic.com/23rwg06.jpg

So I'm still doubting the optimization of this build, especially the player bar. I was just able to finish the first part of mallyx at /age 9, and that's with whatever bars I already had. If I was to optimize for mallyx I could probably get 8, and tbh this area doesn't really favor my builds. I get that the mostly afk part of this is a draw, but I don't understand how that speaks to the build when playing GW is what you want to be doing.

Edit: Scratch that, after some tinkering I don't think 8 is doable.

Zephyr of Light · Oct 19, 2015, 08:24 AM // 08:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Life Bringing

So I'm still doubting the optimization of this build, especially the player bar. I was just able to finish the first part of mallyx at /age 9, and that's with whatever bars I already had. If I was to optimize for mallyx I could probably get 8, and tbh this area doesn't really favor my builds. I get that the mostly afk part of this is a draw, but I don't understand how that speaks to the build when playing GW is what you want to be doing.

Hey life bringer,

The optimization is as good and true as I could possibly make it by resembling the initial Z-Way team.
The player build is mostly too provide enchantments (since the idea is for you too AFK all waves for farming purposes) for the Infuse elementist, which makes the Infuse capable of restoring back too full health with a random spell cast after using Infuse Health.

The reason you are getting faster times is most likely because you are participating in dealing damage other then being "AFK", which ofcourse a player always does better then a single hero.
And if hero placement is spot on, the chances of surviving all waves is easily 90%.

But id love too hear input for improvements, especially for Hard Mode as that has proven very very hard to do, and nearly impossible.
(Trust me, iv tried over 30 diffrent types of setups)

Life Bringing · Oct 19, 2015, 08:42 AM // 08:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zephyr of Light

Hey life bringer,

The optimization is as good and true as I could possibly make it by resembling the initial Z-Way team.
The player build is mostly too provide enchantments (since the idea is for you too AFK all waves for farming purposes) for the Infuse elementist, which makes the Infuse capable of restoring back too full health with a random spell cast after using Infuse Health.

The reason you are getting faster times is most likely because you are participating in dealing damage other then being "AFK", which ofcourse a player always does better then a single hero.
And if hero placement is spot on, the chances of surviving all waves is easily 90%.

But id love too hear input for improvements, especially for Hard Mode as that has proven very very hard to do, and nearly impossible.
(Trust me, iv tried over 30 diffrent types of setups)

I guess the point I'm making is that if you are capable of essentially afking all these areas/bosses/fights, then by definition the build is not optimized because you are not utilizing your 8th(and, as you said, highest potential) party member. This likely means that the setup is overly defensive, and could be improved by increasing the offensive capabilities of the team.

The one thing I notice right off the bat is that you have so many interrupts packed across the bars that there is no way that they can all be used. The shutdown is simply too great for all but the most dense caster mobs, and even when considering those, the spells that might get through aren't damaging enough to the team to bother with interrupting them.

Zephyr of Light · Oct 19, 2015, 09:42 AM // 09:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Life Bringing

I guess the point I'm making is that if you are capable of essentially afking all these areas/bosses/fights, then by definition the build is not optimized because you are not utilizing your 8th(and, as you said, highest potential) party member. This likely means that the setup is overly defensive, and could be improved by increasing the offensive capabilities of the team.

The one thing I notice right off the bat is that you have so many interrupts packed across the bars that there is no way that they can all be used. The shutdown is simply too great for all but the most dense caster mobs, and even when considering those, the spells that might get through aren't damaging enough to the team to bother with interrupting them.

I understand your concerns and has indeed been brought up earlier regarding the Defense/Offense ratio.
But everything lays in the details, the entire team is woven into eachother too provide solid Defense and crowd controll while they take turns interrupting the enemy skills, this way especially in longer fights like high health boss fights is that the target will be shut down for a very long period of time, more precisely till the target dies.

The first thing it will provide is damage migitation towards your team so they last longer and are able to do what they are made for.
I agree with the fact that this team is more of a stand-alone group that excludes you to do its job, Physical Support teams is the other way around and solely is there to provide benefits for the player other the being able to deal with things themselves.
This however allows the player too play whatever his heart desires, may it be Damage or Healing, a marksman necromancer or fire casting ranger.

However I do disagree with the fact that spells that may leak through would not be dangerous, especially in Hard Mode and prominently in Domain of Anguish, and versus any Mesmer or Elementist.
Dont forget that the real hard enemies have over 22-24 points in their skill tree's, and without the propper Protection or controll you will simply get overwhelmed for example in the area of Forgewright.

On the offensive part of the team I agree and disagree, choosing to take for example two Fire elementists for Bogroots will indeed show that that may prove more efficiënt as you'll be facing enemies with a lower resistance to Fire.
But that only stops there, do make note that all sources of damage this team does is armor ignoring, and all damage on every single enemy will be the same in any situation and in any area, whether their armor is 60 or 225.

Also make note that there is so much AoE damage in this team (almost primairly) that it wont matter if you hit a single target, or 40 enemies balled toghether, they all will drop at the same rate.

Thank you for the feedback which always is much appreciated, but if you can tell me which other skills too take for my mesmers too fill the "lack of offense" gap you feel is present, then please let me know.

Zephyr.

Nimma · Oct 19, 2015, 09:51 AM // 09:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zephyr of Light

Hello Nimma,

Goodluck

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenough

Thanks both for the great explanation! Really helps me out

Life Bringing · Oct 19, 2015, 05:12 PM // 17:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zephyr of Light

I understand your concerns and has indeed been brought up earlier regarding the Defense/Offense ratio.
But everything lays in the details, the entire team is woven into eachother too provide solid Defense and crowd controll while they take turns interrupting the enemy skills, this way especially in longer fights like high health boss fights is that the target will be shut down for a very long period of time, more precisely till the target dies.

The first thing it will provide is damage migitation towards your team so they last longer and are able to do what they are made for.
I agree with the fact that this team is more of a stand-alone group that excludes you to do its job, Physical Support teams is the other way around and solely is there to provide benefits for the player other the being able to deal with things themselves.
This however allows the player too play whatever his heart desires, may it be Damage or Healing, a marksman necromancer or fire casting ranger.

However I do disagree with the fact that spells that may leak through would not be dangerous, especially in Hard Mode and prominently in Domain of Anguish, and versus any Mesmer or Elementist.
Dont forget that the real hard enemies have over 22-24 points in their skill tree's, and without the propper Protection or controll you will simply get overwhelmed for example in the area of Forgewright.

On the offensive part of the team I agree and disagree, choosing to take for example two Fire elementists for Bogroots will indeed show that that may prove more efficiënt as you'll be facing enemies with a lower resistance to Fire.
But that only stops there, do make note that all sources of damage this team does is armor ignoring, and all damage on every single enemy will be the same in any situation and in any area, whether their armor is 60 or 225.

Also make note that there is so much AoE damage in this team (almost primairly) that it wont matter if you hit a single target, or 40 enemies balled toghether, they all will drop at the same rate.

Thank you for the feedback which always is much appreciated, but if you can tell me which other skills too take for my mesmers too fill the "lack of offense" gap you feel is present, then please let me know.

Zephyr.

I will say that it is pretty cool that you have taken the player completely out of the equation and still have a successful build. It's exactly this reason why you have had such great responses from the public. That being said, if you are someone who can agro and and pull correctly there are bound to be improvements that can be made.

First, the point about "lasting longer" is largely irrelevant. Fights in pve just don't last that long. A point that a few of us were trying to drill into people years ago on this site was that the best mitigation is death. If you can blow thing up faster, you will take far less damage(to a point), than if you allow the fight to take that extra 15 seconds. You mentioned some areas where fights do tend to take a while, such as Duncan. The problem with this example is that his entire damage potential is from spirits, which you can avoid, and Spirit Rift, which can be completely avoided by dropping one party flag and moving it whenever Duncan casts rift. In general, single boss targets aren't really what's going to kill you.

As for the spells that leak through, isn't that what Shelter is for? If you plan to stop every nuke from hitting your party, why is the ST even there? Even without an ST, smart positioning and agro removes the need to stop everything. Forge is more than doable without an ST, let alone 5 mesmers.

I don't actually know what you're currently running as far as bars go so it would be difficult to suggest specific changes. From what it looks like you have a base of maybe 3-4 bars and swap out the rest situationally. If you post your current bars I'll give it a run through and see what I can suggest. Note that I don't have mercs so it'll have to be without those. I don't think this is too unreasonable considering a player shouldn't need mercs to clear areas, similar to how you shouldn't need cons either.

Also I'm fairly sure the game caps attributes at 20, even in HM.